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Post by bullfrog on Aug 17, 2023 10:18:43 GMT -5
They will eat chicks. I used to feed my ornata deformed or weak chicks. For now, these two Cranwells will be raised indoors. One in my daughter’s room, one in my study. I will only put the adults outside to breed, then let the froglets grow up outside in a secure enclosure. I fed my ornata a snake once. Is that like a side chick name I don't know about? Not unless you like Star Wars hutts.
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 18, 2023 23:41:05 GMT -5
Coming close to the end of week one with Dain Ironfoot, the green ti-strip Cranwell. Observations so far is that I believe the frog has skeletally grown, although its gut isn't want it should be for a pacman frog. Dain is not very voracious. But, humidity has been too low most days in its enclosure. I'm finding that the 5 gallon tank I have it in is much harder to maintain proper parameters with than the 10 gallon that Frogger is in. The low humidity caused Dain to enter a state of estivation, which I broke tonight by placing the frog in its water dish. Dain is now shedding "his" (sex will be unknown for months) outer later of skin and may become more active after he soaks all night. For reference, in nature pacman frogs will bury down and form a protective layer of skin that locks in moisture. The frog can then spend months in a hibernation-like state. In captivity, this estivation starts when temperatures in the tank gets too low or the tank dries out. It can be broken by hydrating the frog. On the positive side, Dain's legs are getting more muscled. I'm also getting his tank parameters dialed in. I have found that the 25 watt ceramic heater I was using to maintain the tanks's temperature in the low to mid 80s was drying it out too fast. I've replaced the lighting system with a florescent/halogen combo and that doesn't seem to hurt his eyes. For daytime parameters, the light itself seems to heat the tank enough. I will experiment to see tonight how low the tank gets with the light off and no additional heater present. If the tank gets too cold at night without a heater, I will place the ceramic heater on a thermostat that should cause it to only activate below a certain temperature. If the heater is not constantly running may not lower the humidity as fast. I'm also going to shift the heater's focus to the water dish so that it heats the water and possibly causes the water to humidify the tank. I am also pleased to see how the sweat potato slips are growing. I believe they will end up being an excellent decoration and natural hiding place for the frog. Now Frogger (yes I let my wife have her way on the name) is amazingly rambunctious and voracious. He actively roams his tank at night looking for prey, something I have not seen a pacman frog do. I have no doubt he'd bite my finger if I offered it to him. I wish Dain was healthier, but I suppose this is a good way to explore the issues with captive pacman frogs; to have one that has issues typical of captive specimens and another that is more like their wild state to compare to. I do like Dain's unique coloration and I'd like to make frogs like him but with Frogger's personality. I notice the two frogs even carry themselves differently even though they are the same species. Frogger has a posture a lot like a backyard toad while Dain is a lot more "pacman" like. Color differences aside, I don't think I would identify them as the same species if I found them in the wild based on those behavioral and structural differences.
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Post by johnnybandit on Aug 19, 2023 1:51:27 GMT -5
My Snakes Cage/Enclosure is BIG 48x28x28..... MUCH bigger than he needs now... But I opted to buy a high end semi custom tank that will fit him when he is an adult.... I am having issues with the humidity... Not really issues so much as I am having to watch it and mist the cage a couple of times a day... Even with using ground coconut as a substrate and lots of spagnum moss....
Frankly I think it is because it is so hot outside my HVAC never cycles off and is pulling massive amounts of moisture out of the house..... My drain pipe is a steady flow.
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 20, 2023 22:13:33 GMT -5
My Snakes Cage/Enclosure is BIG 48x28x28..... MUCH bigger than he needs now... But I opted to buy a high end semi custom tank that will fit him when he is an adult.... I am having issues with the humidity... Not really issues so much as I am having to watch it and mist the cage a couple of times a day... Even with using ground coconut as a substrate and lots of spagnum moss.... Frankly I think it is because it is so hot outside my HVAC never cycles off and is pulling massive amounts of moisture out of the house..... My drain pipe is a steady flow. I think you're right, it's the AC sucking the humidity right out. Yesterday I wrapped the screen tops of both terrariums in tin foil and cut out holes for the lights and heaters. That did the trick and now my humidity levels are staying constant where they need to be in the 70-80% range. If a person is going to keep a pacman frog terrestrial and I am, the humidity has to stay high. Otherwise they'll bury down and estivate. They'll live fine being kept in shallow water. Where they come from in South America they often live in temporary pools and shallow wetlands where they'd naturally be hanging out in puddles. But they will also live like a toad, burying in the dirt during the day and hunting at night. Most home keepers frown on keeping them in water 24-7 these days, but professional breeders often so keep their stock that way. Over a 24 hour period, Frogger demolished about 7 or 8 large feeder crickets. Dain took 2 or 3. Dain is big enough to eat Frogger, so the appetite difference between the smaller frog and the larger frog is significant. Tonight I read that Cranwell's weren't distinguished from Ornates until 1980, a biologist named Cranwell was the person who figured out they exist as two species not one. But where their ranges overlap in the wild, they share similar traits and can be hard to distinguish, suggesting they hybridize naturally in the wild and may make fertile offspring. I've been watching call sequences for Ornate and Cranwell males and they seem generally identical to me. I am wondering if they're speciating only within the last several centuries. They remind me of the closeness of cottonmouths and copperheads. Virtually the same snake just adapted for different habitats.
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 25, 2023 23:04:48 GMT -5
Dain has been getting skinny and refusing to eat for several days. Tonight I changed up the variables a bit. I raised his tank temperature to 85°F and began presenting him with as many different wild food items as I could. I finally found some sort of small wild cockroach, not the domestic kind and not palmetto bugs, but the beetle-like kind that live under logs, and I began offering those to Dain with tongs. Once he tried the first one he was hooked. He ate 3 back to back and then I snuck a cricket to him. He ate that cricket but refused the next cricket. I think he simply doesn’t like crickets. But Dain apparently loves him some frogs. I found this female green tree frog that was full of row on a pine tree and offered her to Dain. This triggered him and he caught the tree frog several times but the tree frog kept escaping. That’s what is happening in the above pic. I finally killed the treefrog and offered her to Dain with tongs and Dain took her greedily. He’s almost got her totally swallowed. Now that she’s deflated she’s not a difficult fit into his mouth. This is an excellent development for Dain. He/she ought to receive a lot of good nutrition from tonight’s haul and should gain some mass over the next several days. I am not totally sure Dain is a Cranwell’s. The strong prey drive against frogs suggests one of the species more uncommon to the hobby. Some species are known to be almost exclusively frog eaters. I am guessing Dain may be some sort of uncommon hybrid.
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Post by oldbastard on Aug 26, 2023 5:01:26 GMT -5
You should release some of them into the Everglades
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 26, 2023 7:18:16 GMT -5
You should release some of them into the Everglades I’m sure its been done before. Its unknown why they haven’t been established in Florida.
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Post by bullfrog on Sept 4, 2023 21:43:23 GMT -5
So 4 days without power and my frogs had perfect conditions. Temps in the mid 80s and humidity around 80%. Again, it makes me scratch my head as to why pacmans aren’t naturalized in Florida. I think I can also rule out lack of food. The regions in South America they come from are known for explosive insect populations at various times of the year. But I read a study that indicated that pacman frogs base much or most of their diet on other frogs. Florida has no shortage of frogs. It also appears that pacmans can eat poisonous species. So again, we really should have them all across Florida and the wider southeast. Dain Ironfoot goes crazy for other frogs. I’ve been giving him an adult green tree frog every 3 days or so. He’s growing well and now seems to be out of the slump I was in when I got him. Frogger continues to be voracious and eat whatever I offer. He eats every day if I offer it. He has eaten a small treefrog and I’ve also given him lizards. But wild crickets are the staple of his diet.
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Post by bullfrog on Sept 15, 2023 23:44:39 GMT -5
So I've learned that Dain's deal is that he/she wants vertebrates. If I offer frogs or rodents, Dain aggressively catches and eats them. The only vertebrate Dain has refused have been anoles. So far, Dain has had 9 green tree frogs. Dain has doubled or tripled in size since I first got the frog. Frogger is also growing quickly.Below is Frogger eating a pinky mouse. This is Frogger this evening swallowing a wild field cricket. Frogger continues to eat anything offered. He's had 1 pinky mouse, 2 anoles, 1 leopard frog, 1 green tree frog, and dozens of crickets both wild and domestic. Last week he started dropping crickets out of his mouth as if his tongue didn't work. I read that condition is usually caused by vitamin A deficiency, so I dosed him with vitamin A formulated for amphibians and gave him the pinky, which is high in vitamin A. Now his tongue works like it ought, so I suspect the diagnosis was correct. I can alleviate further vitamin A issues in either frog by making sure they get a mouse or other small, fatty, mammal once a month. I am going to guess that Frogger will turn out to be a male and Dana a female. That will bear out when they get near a year old. If either are a male, they'll develop an extra pad on their front feet they use for gripping females when mating.
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Post by mackeralsnatcher on Sept 16, 2023 4:06:43 GMT -5
Never knew that frogs ate mice. Learn something new every day. Cool pic
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Post by stc1993 on Sept 16, 2023 13:46:53 GMT -5
When I was around 12 I found a toad that had swallowed a chicken thigh bone. It was funny seeing the bone sticking out it's mouth.
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Post by swampdog on Sept 16, 2023 16:50:36 GMT -5
I bet they’d love a Cuban tree frog or two. I guess you don’t have any up there.
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Post by OhMy on Sept 16, 2023 17:09:04 GMT -5
Cool thread.
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Post by bullfrog on Sept 16, 2023 18:56:00 GMT -5
I bet they’d love a Cuban tree frog or two. I guess you don’t have any up there. There are Cuban tree frogs in the urban areas all the way across the Panhandle. I think they survive the freezes by utilizing heat and microclimates created by humans in cities. When I lived in Ocala, I found Cuban tree frogs in my toilet, my shower drain, and most amazingly underneath several inches of gravel in a full aquarium. I think they were all overwintering in my home. I don’t ever see Cubans in the woods. Cubans are mildly poisonous to mammals. Snakes can eat them but only gain half the weight compared to eating native green tree frogs. Pacmans can eat poisonous frogs in their own environment but I do not know if they can handle toxins from frogs they didn’t speciate around. Cane toads come from the same part of the Amazon as Surinam horned frogs, cornutas, which are the pacmans that specialize as frog eaters even moreso than the other species. I do not know if cornutas eat cane toads in nature or not.
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Post by swampdog on Sept 17, 2023 7:16:24 GMT -5
Interesting - good stuff BFrog.
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