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Post by Tarponator on Aug 21, 2023 9:40:30 GMT -5
Perhaps, but I might also point out those same views are the reason why he attracts the actual racist fascists.
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 21, 2023 10:15:54 GMT -5
Perhaps, but I might also point out those same views are the reason why he attracts the actual racist fascists. The neo-Nazis view Trump as some sort of race traitor and aren’t all that attracted to him. Remember his daughter and son-in-law are Jewish and Trump is very pro-Israel. Among American self-proclaimed neo-Nazis, one can’t be one of them and view Jews favorably. As opposed to neo-Nazis in Ukraine who are happy to serve Jewish Zelensky while wearing SS insignia. American self-identified Nazis latch on to race aspect above all else and tend to ignore the politics of fascism, while many European fascists do the opposite and focus on the politics over race. The factions of militant far Right that likes Trump are more the libertarian militia types, which are not one and the same as “racist fascists.” This all ties into the thread we have going talking about the Left’s misperception of what the far Right is about.
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Post by Tarponator on Aug 21, 2023 10:23:45 GMT -5
Although I think you generalize a bit (as is necessary because we are speaking in generalities), I don't think I really disagree with any of that. Nor do I think it runs counter to my post -- please note that I didn't mention neo-nazis (which I agree are a special flavor even if I think you downplay their very real attraction to Trump).
Lastly, and trying to take a step back here and discount my own bias in an attempt to be more objective, I don't see a whole lot of difference between your observations about what you think the left thinks of the right and the right thinks of the left -- they both misrepresent the other's position (mostly through our favorite logical fallacy, strawmen, and over-generalization which is the point I'm picking at here).
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Post by bullfrog on Aug 21, 2023 10:36:27 GMT -5
they both misrepresent the other's position (mostly through our favorite logical fallacy, strawmen, and over-generalization which is the point I'm picking at here). I’m coming around to that way of thinking. I used to perceive that the Left was more intolerant of the Right than the Right was of the Left, and that the intolerance by Leftists was a result of their ideology. What I’ve observed as the years have went by is how well people on both sides get along with each other has a lot more to do with personality than ideology, and that the various personality types are well represented across the spectrum. Where social cohesion is breaking down is the failure of each faction to form personal relationships with the other.
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Post by biminitwisted on Aug 21, 2023 10:44:38 GMT -5
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Post by biminitwisted on Aug 21, 2023 10:55:51 GMT -5
Kemp has said that he expects to be called as a witness in this case. So it's a fine line as to whether this is tampering or not.
Perhaps his tiny hands will be more tied after he is arrested and processed this week and agrees to the bond and bail restrictions?
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Post by misterjr on Aug 21, 2023 11:38:53 GMT -5
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Post by tampaspicer on Aug 21, 2023 12:28:46 GMT -5
I never seen a Ronald Reagan boat parade. I never seen Fuck Bill Clinton flags. It’s a total cult of personality. Agree 100% When I saw this back in 2020 I immediately thought North Korea. Defacing the American Flag? Imagine what would have been next. Probably statues of Lord McDonald Trump all over the place. Good thing he lost and will never be president ever again. Maybe the president of a book club in prison is the best he can do now.
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Post by Tarponator on Aug 21, 2023 13:37:05 GMT -5
they both misrepresent the other's position (mostly through our favorite logical fallacy, strawmen, and over-generalization which is the point I'm picking at here). I’m coming around to that way of thinking. I used to perceive that the Left was more intolerant of the Right than the Right was of the Left, and that the intolerance by Leftists was a result of their ideology. What I’ve observed as the years have went by is how well people on both sides get along with each other has a lot more to do with personality than ideology, and that the various personality types are well represented across the spectrum. Where social cohesion is breaking down is the failure of each faction to form personal relationships with the other. I suspect I'll be laughed at for this comment, but I was watching the Rachel Maddow interview of Hillary the other night (after hearing all the outrage over her laughing at the opening), and apparently she just wrote a book how about how society has become less cohesive and how, when combined with personally-customized content via social media algorithms, that has effected the political discourse in this country. What she said made a lot of sense to me, and I would encourage you to watch that part of the interview.
Said a bit differently, my arguments with my right leaning friends in real life take a very different tone precisely because we have a (social) relationship, and those discussions tend to be far more productive and enlightening than many of the rapidly-devolving discussions here (present company excluded ).
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Post by Tarponator on Aug 21, 2023 13:40:05 GMT -5
Kemp has said that he expects to be called as a witness in this case. So it's a fine line as to whether this is tampering or not. Perhaps his tiny hands will be more tied after he is arrested and processed this week and agrees to the bond and bail restrictions? I think Trump is baiting the DA/judge.
I also think they would be wise not to take the bait, but with comments like this it's going to be hard to justify just sitting on their hands while he continues to taint the jury pool and tampers with potential witnesses.
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Post by swampdog on Aug 21, 2023 14:19:39 GMT -5
Interesting the way some of us are trending on here. I have dear friends on the left that mirror me and my friends on the right. They love their firearms, justice, freedom and like us are closer to the center on the line between the far left and the far right. Long story short we have more in common than not. Whatever happens with the next election, the “great middle” I hope will stand tall.
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Post by biminitwisted on Aug 21, 2023 14:57:16 GMT -5
Kemp has said that he expects to be called as a witness in this case. So it's a fine line as to whether this is tampering or not. Perhaps his tiny hands will be more tied after he is arrested and processed this week and agrees to the bond and bail restrictions? I think Trump is baiting the DA/judge.
I also think they would be wise not to take the bait, but with comments like this it's going to be hard to justify just sitting on their hands while he continues to taint the jury pool and tampers with potential witnesses.
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Post by cyclist on Aug 21, 2023 16:04:46 GMT -5
Interesting the way some of us are trending on here. I have dear friends on the left that mirror me and my friends on the right. They love their firearms, justice, freedom and like us are closer to the center on the line between the far left and the far right. Long story short we have more in common than not. Whatever happens with the next election, the “great middle” I hope will stand tall. It would be nice...but how do you align with people who just do no not understand whats fact and whats fiction?
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Post by Tarponator on Aug 21, 2023 16:15:42 GMT -5
I'm not quite sure, but I believe fairly strongly it starts with empathy.
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Post by conchydong on Aug 21, 2023 16:17:40 GMT -5
That works both ways Pete whether you see it or not. I consider myself more to the middle than the extreme right but unfortunately the politicians seem to cater to the extremists on both sides.
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