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Post by bswiv on Jul 3, 2024 4:16:10 GMT -5
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Post by ferris1248 on Jul 3, 2024 20:57:25 GMT -5
It is worth thinking about.
Will congress resume its responsibilites or pass the buck to the courts since beaurecrats can no longer do congresses job.
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Post by biminitwisted on Jul 3, 2024 23:42:46 GMT -5
Many regulatory and governance matters require expertise that both congress and the courts just can't have. That is why we need bodies that can make policy and rules on the fly, and enforce them in real time (with the help of the courts). Another thing that only the agencies can do.
This is going to be a shit show, but job security for GRC people like me.
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Post by bswiv on Jul 4, 2024 6:12:39 GMT -5
Many regulatory and governance matters require expertise that both congress and the courts just can't have. That is why we need bodies that can make policy and rules on the fly, and enforce them in real time (with the help of the courts). Another thing that only the agencies can do. This is going to be a shit show, but job security for GRC people like me. Congress can directly delegate great parts of it to the agencies. And as you say, in some instances they must defer to expertise. The crux of it, though, is that if Congress is to do that, to delegate, they must be clear in the enabling legislation that they are assigning ( abdicating? ) the actual crafting of and functioning of a rule/regulation that will apply to CITIZENS to bureaucrats. I am unconcerned that Congress will now have to have the science folks come up to Congress as legislation is promulgated and then from that expert testimony & advice more carefully craft what will ultimately apply to us. It's all about democracy, about having those we have the opportunity to elect, or unelect, to be more responsible and involved. Congress could even give up a few hours a week of the time they spend chasing campaign dollars to actually doing what they are supposed to do. |
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Post by johngalt on Jul 4, 2024 6:39:06 GMT -5
Hopefully this will overturn some of the rules placed on the trucking industry. Especially the ELD(electronic logs) requirement.
Expensive and has caused a lot of problems but, has made lots of money for companies like Qualcomm, AT&T and other companies.
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Post by bswiv on Jul 4, 2024 7:06:33 GMT -5
Hopefully this will overturn some of the rules placed on the trucking industry. Especially the ELD(electronic logs) requirement. Expensive and has caused a lot of problems but, has made lots of money for companies like Qualcomm, AT&T and other companies. Follow that up with tort reform such that the INDUSTRY which has grown up around "slip & fall" and "big truck" claims is reigned in. Looser pays with the lawyer/legal entity bringing the suit on the hoop for the first $20-30-50,000, of the defendants legal expenses such that fighting cases rather than settling because settling is cheaper for the insurance company. The end result of that being lower insurance rates for all manner of things which will accrue good to those of us buying insurance......and all manner of other goods. |
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Post by luapnor on Jul 4, 2024 8:30:24 GMT -5
If it's so complicated then maybe there shouldn't be regulations.
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Post by mapper on Jul 4, 2024 9:02:31 GMT -5
The issue is ambiguities, but sometimes as lately it has not been.
A agency cannot redefine a definition of something in law or usc by rule making. That is congress.
(See bump stock, ruling)
Same for frame and reciever
All rule making needs to follow APA, it can't be a proposed rule, comment, then a diffrent published rule with no definite boundaries on what the rule is, other than agency determination.
(See pistol brace)
Agency letters after review of things need to be binding, they are not. So you can have a letter on something that has been legal for a decade, get changed. This could make a citizen a felon.
Laws or rules need to be well defined, concise. To make them as ambitious as possible, with only the discretion of the agency (executive branch rule having effect of law) in interpretation, as well as enforcement of them is not the proper way to create rules/laws.
So someone must be harmed, have standing, and bring a long and costly legal case to have these rules invalidated.
The fact that a prospective Supreme Court nominee has his fingerprints, and approvals on the process is quite telling that it is a executive political policy instead of following rule of law and procedure.
This creates a breakdown of trust in executive agenceys and respect for rule of law as it is seen as corrupt.
These rules are not well covered in "news" and the citizen who is impacted needs to follow them and search them out.
As far as agency expertise in things, that should be taken account in APA rulemaking process and rules should be well defined.
The flawed "give ambiguity to agency who wrote and enforced the rule" was a bad decision. Even though it hasn't been used in a decade..it still hung around as precedent.
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Post by biminitwisted on Jul 4, 2024 14:51:25 GMT -5
Many regulatory and governance matters require expertise that both congress and the courts just can't have. That is why we need bodies that can make policy and rules on the fly, and enforce them in real time (with the help of the courts). Another thing that only the agencies can do. This is going to be a shit show, but job security for GRC people like me. Congress can directly delegate great parts of it to the agencies. And as you say, in some instances they must defer to expertise. The crux of it, though, is that if Congress is to do that, to delegate, they must be clear in the enabling legislation that they are assigning ( abdicating? ) the actual crafting of and functioning of a rule/regulation that will apply to CITIZENS to bureaucrats. I am unconcerned that Congress will now have to have the science folks come up to Congress as legislation is promulgated and then from that expert testimony & advice more carefully craft what will ultimately apply to us. It's all about democracy, about having those we have the opportunity to elect, or unelect, to be more responsible and involved. Congress could even give up a few hours a week of the time they spend chasing campaign dollars to actually doing what they are supposed to do. Thing is the scenario you present above moves very slowly and cannot adapt on the fly quickly to emerging issues. Take AI Governance as an example, the technology and the fiscal corporate landscape is changing so fast that the only way to prevent harm to Americans before that harm is already done is currently under the auspices of the FTC, with back up from the DOJ. That's it, that's the only guardrail to all the potential AI harm. |
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Post by dragonbait on Jul 4, 2024 17:27:30 GMT -5
Hopefully this will overturn some of the rules placed on the trucking industry. Especially the ELD(electronic logs) requirement. Expensive and has caused a lot of problems but, has made lots of money for companies like Qualcomm, AT&T and other companies. Because the paper logs can be cheated or at least they could in the 90’s, So I can understand why you would like to do away with the electronic ones Got too make that deadline and the hell with being safe |
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Post by bswiv on Jul 4, 2024 18:02:29 GMT -5
Congress can directly delegate great parts of it to the agencies. And as you say, in some instances they must defer to expertise. The crux of it, though, is that if Congress is to do that, to delegate, they must be clear in the enabling legislation that they are assigning ( abdicating? ) the actual crafting of and functioning of a rule/regulation that will apply to CITIZENS to bureaucrats. I am unconcerned that Congress will now have to have the science folks come up to Congress as legislation is promulgated and then from that expert testimony & advice more carefully craft what will ultimately apply to us. It's all about democracy, about having those we have the opportunity to elect, or unelect, to be more responsible and involved. Congress could even give up a few hours a week of the time they spend chasing campaign dollars to actually doing what they are supposed to do. Thing is the scenario you present above moves very slowly and cannot adapt on the fly quickly to emerging issues. Take AI Governance as an example, the technology and the fiscal corporate landscape is changing so fast that the only way to prevent harm to Americans before that harm is already done is currently under the auspices of the FTC, with back up from the DOJ. That's it, that's the only guardrail to all the potential AI harm. It's not a proven that AI, if not controlled and regulated in a manner "quickly" devised, with the idea that it is "the only way to prevent harm", is necessary so ........yep......let's use a scenario of limited and insufficient information as a reason to subvert the idea of democracy. You do not give up foundational ideals and ideas for some PERCIEVED fright of what might happen. |
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Post by biminitwisted on Jul 4, 2024 20:46:50 GMT -5
Thing is the scenario you present above moves very slowly and cannot adapt on the fly quickly to emerging issues. Take AI Governance as an example, the technology and the fiscal corporate landscape is changing so fast that the only way to prevent harm to Americans before that harm is already done is currently under the auspices of the FTC, with back up from the DOJ. That's it, that's the only guardrail to all the potential AI harm. It's not a proven that AI, if not controlled and regulated in a manner "quickly" devised, with the idea that it is "the only way to prevent harm", is necessary so ........yep......let's use a scenario of limited and insufficient information as a reason to subvert the idea of democracy. You do not give up foundational ideals and ideas for some PERCIEVED fright of what might happen. You can lead a horse to water, but you can make them put on a dress. |
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Post by nikonoclast on Jul 4, 2024 21:37:30 GMT -5
If it's so complicated then maybe there shouldn't be regulations. A modern society without regulations? If that's what you really want, it's available. Beachfront property can be yours quickly, and cheaply. No zoning regulations, and tax rates are always negotiable. Pack up your bags and buy a one-way ticket to your new home: Somalia |
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Post by toldya on Jul 4, 2024 22:03:52 GMT -5
If it's so complicated then maybe there shouldn't be regulations. A modern society without regulations? If that's what you really want, it's available. Beachfront property can be yours quickly, and cheaply. No zoning regulations, and tax rates are always negotiable. Pack up your bags and buy a one-way ticket to your new home: Somalia If he's willing to give up the beachfront he can go to any Democratic run shithole city and do that . |
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Post by bswiv on Jul 5, 2024 5:28:14 GMT -5
It's not a proven that AI, if not controlled and regulated in a manner "quickly" devised, with the idea that it is "the only way to prevent harm", is necessary so ........yep......let's use a scenario of limited and insufficient information as a reason to subvert the idea of democracy. You do not give up foundational ideals and ideas for some PERCIEVED fright of what might happen. You can lead a horse to water, but you can make them put on a dress. Please forgive me. I had no idea. All this time, all those talking point answers, and then too the ones that just went off into a logic death spiral, I should have picked up on it. I'd of shown more respect and deference, been less quick to make complex arguments, simplified the language and syntax so as not to cause confusion or offend. Though, you must realize that one of the last places one would expect this, time being precious and limited as it is,.....well.......who'd of ever thought that here you'd be, engaging with us, educating us, caring for us. I truly never meant to offend or to challenge your good intentions, never! Heck, do reread some of my posts, there being many the time where I happen to agree with you on the sanity of changing a situation ( Income inequality and corporate welfare come immediately to mind. ). Though it may have seemed by my pointing out how your solution was actually making the problem worse, even now and again been the cause of the problem that I was not accepting your good intentions. Again.......it just never occurred to me that it could be you.......until this last post. I now get it. And I'll be more deferential going forward. My apologies Mr. President. |
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