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Post by One Man Gang on Jun 8, 2024 5:08:57 GMT -5
Man I miss those days too, Ron.
Regarding the camping, the hunting, and the atmosphere, it all was nothing short of magical. The whole process just to hunt is almost drudgery to me these days. I guess dinosaurs like us live in a new world with a new breed of wanna be great, self serving assholes in it now and it is doubtful we will ever see it as good as it was.
Remember my mantra from the old days at UWF: WITHOUT ACCESS, YOU HAVE NOTHING!
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Post by One Man Gang on Jun 8, 2024 5:10:32 GMT -5
And Pat's mantra: Quotas are the root of all evil to Florida's hunting...
Twenty years later, we have arrived.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Jun 8, 2024 5:44:27 GMT -5
"Hush your mouth TRT", they're coming up here fast enough already.
1000 people a day moving to Florida and the majority headed to the southern end of the state. They are displacing the few that remember what Florida use to be and they are headed up here. I don't blame them my family did the same, 60 yrs ago.
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Post by james14 on Jun 8, 2024 12:09:16 GMT -5
Ive always said "5 deer tags per deer permit purchased, 4 turkey tags per Turkey tag purchased. Then open "the people's land to the people". It sounds like a crazy idea. In the short term it is crazy. The good areas that are now quota only would get absolutely hammered. But the romp-n-stomps would go practically untouched. For a decade or more this would go on. Then slowly everything would even out. All those areas would be the same. There would be no more hard to hunt romp-n-stomps and no more game everywhere "zoo" get it every 5 years quota areas. The best part is most would hunt close to where they live. They would learn a piece of land. Learn woodsmanship instead of a 3 day brawl to get something. They would actually learn how to "hunt", which is a common complaint I hear often in the hunting world. How can someone learn to hunt on a 3 day quota? They might scout prior or maybe mess someone elses hunt up by scouting during hunts. But if its an all season thing, there is commitment. I know, its a crazy concept, especially for a populated state like FLA. Personally I just want the OPPORTUNITY to go hunt. The rest of it..... Ill take care of. I think the harvest limits would have to be lower than that, but I agree with the premise. It would be wild for the first few years, but it would even out. I think this would also lower the temptation for some to poach, which I believe is a huge problem that is getting little attention. The main barrier to this happening, however, is not necessarily FWC, but the myriad agencies which are lead managers of properties in the state. The fact that other agencies can determine how hunting is handled on "their" properties is the biggest problem public land hunters face in this state. |
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Post by wayvis on Jun 8, 2024 16:15:41 GMT -5
If only that was how things would work out. The problem isn’t too many quota areas. It’s too many closed public lands that used to be hunted when they were privately owned. Between the state buying almost all the native ground and shutting down access, and development continuing to eat away at the private lands as time goes on, there are just fewer and fewer acres available to squeeze hunters on to every year. You know I will have to disagree with you on the problem isn't too many quota areas. Too many quota areas are the problem. They should be the exception not the rule. That is how it was back in the 60's thru about 1980 and we had more deer hunters then. During that time, we were growing are deer herds on public lands, because we had very little doe hunting and a lot fewer archery hunters with less effect bows shooting does. With the deer limits, antler restrictions, and game check rules that we now have I don't think the deer would get hammered on most WMAs. I know I hunt hard on a lease, about 60 days a year normally only harvesting one deer a year. Yes, I'm a little picky but not too on the first one for meat. Florida deer are quite difficult to harvest even for seasoned hunter. Why can't FWC come up with a number of deer and turkey to harvest for each WMA and when that limit is reached shut it down now that we have a deer and turkey check system. Oh, that would be managing the game not the hunters! |
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Post by walkerdog on Jun 8, 2024 16:41:34 GMT -5
Disagree on the overall number being too many but I know your situation and don’t disagree that they should have a diversity of opportunity types in every region of the state.
I don’t know the cause of the issue, but I suspect it has something to do with who the land “owning” public entity is and what they want to allow to happen on “their” land.
I like your idea of closing when the desired number is reached. Palatability is the problem. Most wouldn’t like the system. Managing the user is part of managing game populations properly. People like to complain about it but without doing it, your back to the late 1800’s where seasons and bag limits didn’t exist.
Not a good idea for the game or for the hunter.
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Post by wayvis on Jun 10, 2024 6:41:02 GMT -5
Disagree on the overall number being too many but I know your situation and don’t disagree that they should have a diversity of opportunity types in every region of the state. I don’t know the cause of the issue, but I suspect it has something to do with who the land “owning” public entity is and what they want to allow to happen on “their” land. I like your idea of closing when the desired number is reached. Palatability is the problem. Most wouldn’t like the system. Managing the user is part of managing game populations properly. People like to complain about it but without doing it, your back to the late 1800’s where seasons and bag limits didn’t exist. Not a good idea for the game or for the hunter. I'm not sure you know my situation. I haven't hunted Public land in over 15yrs because hunting an area for 3 days is not hunting to me. I have pushed the FWC and other agency in the past to have more hunting opportunities on "our lands" but like many have quite beating my head against that wall. Its easy to blame other agencies, but the FWC has lead them down this path of short hunts and quotas. Just look at the areas the FWC is lead agency. They are mostly quota hunts, unless they are very large and far from populated areas. Yes managing the user is part of good wildlife management, but you do that with seasons, bag limits, antler restrictions, doe harvest etc. I think you know very few if any is advocating for no user management. As you know most have supported these user management rules to make hunting better on both private and public lands. Now that we have sensible deer regs and bag limits with the check system it's time for the FWC to take a second look at a lot of are WMAs and do away with many quota areas or at least give more gun hunts on them. |
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Post by meateater on Jun 10, 2024 8:53:47 GMT -5
Quota permits suck. There are too many areas quota only and they keep making non-quota areas into quota areas! Not enough days on the ones that exist and the number given out needs to be increased to account more for no-shows. Transferable Quotas were ruined by a few greedy individuals. There are several areas that have me scratching my head as to why they are quota. Hungryland for example. Who wants to wait 3 years to hunt that place?? Should most definitely be a walk in no quota area. For some spots the quota premise does make sense just based on the layout of the land. Dinner island or Allapattah for example are 75 percent open fields. Imagine a no quota general gun hunt out there with all the yahoos running around nowadays. Still shouldn’t have to wait 4-6 years though. There’s gotta be a better way. 100% agree, dinner island ,allapatta, have to be quota due to amount of open pastures and fields but hungryland or the slough, picayune strand and a few others being quota only and having to wait 3 years or longer is a joke. |
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Post by One Man Gang on Jun 10, 2024 9:04:30 GMT -5
There are several areas that have me scratching my head as to why they are quota. Hungryland for example. Who wants to wait 3 years to hunt that place?? Should most definitely be a walk in no quota area. For some spots the quota premise does make sense just based on the layout of the land. Dinner island or Allapattah for example are 75 percent open fields. Imagine a no quota general gun hunt out there with all the yahoos running around nowadays. Still shouldn’t have to wait 4-6 years though. There’s gotta be a better way. 100% agree, dinner island ,allapatta, have to be quota due to amount of open pastures and fields but hungryland or the slough, picayune strand and a few others being quota only and having to wait 3 years or longer is a joke. Exactly... we would all benefit if a little common sense was used for managing our public lands. They also need to keep it on the simple side with good wording in the regs. |
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Post by meateater on Jun 10, 2024 9:21:13 GMT -5
If only that was how things would work out. The problem isn’t too many quota areas. It’s too many closed public lands that used to be hunted when they were privately owned. Between the state buying almost all the native ground and shutting down access, and development continuing to eat away at the private lands as time goes on, there are just fewer and fewer acres available to squeeze hunters on to every year. You know I will have to disagree with you on the problem isn't too many quota areas. Too many quota areas are the problem. They should be the exception not the rule. That is how it was back in the 60's thru about 1980 and we had more deer hunters then. During that time, we were growing are deer herds on public lands, because we had very little doe hunting and a lot fewer archery hunters with less effect bows shooting does. With the deer limits, antler restrictions, and game check rules that we now have I don't think the deer would get hammered on most WMAs. I know I hunt hard on a lease, about 60 days a year normally only harvesting one deer a year. Yes, I'm a little picky but not too on the first one for meat. Florida deer are quite difficult to harvest even for seasoned hunter. Why can't FWC come up with a number of deer and turkey to harvest for each WMA and when that limit is reached shut it down now that we have a deer and turkey check system. Oh, that would be managing the game not the hunters! this is exactly what i would do if i was in charge, have a number of deer that can be harvested on each wma, lets say 60 is the number on 1 wma, archery season is 15 days or until 20 bucks are harvested, muzzleloader is 15 days or until another twenty are harvested, general gun is 21 days or until the number of 60 is reached, do this on every wma at the same time in a certain zone to limit overcrowding and have 3 zones starting 1st with south zone. 3 points per side first year or 2 then see harvest numbers if it could be lowered. 1 deer during archery, 1 deer during muzzleloader, 1 during general gun. this is per zone. this could be done on the quota only wmas get caught cheating on your harvest report or sneaking a deer out its a mandatory 1 year hunting license suspension. 5 years 2nd offence. everyone hunts, resource still being managed. |
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Post by walkerdog on Jun 10, 2024 21:21:45 GMT -5
Disagree on the overall number being too many but I know your situation and don’t disagree that they should have a diversity of opportunity types in every region of the state. I don’t know the cause of the issue, but I suspect it has something to do with who the land “owning” public entity is and what they want to allow to happen on “their” land. I like your idea of closing when the desired number is reached. Palatability is the problem. Most wouldn’t like the system. Managing the user is part of managing game populations properly. People like to complain about it but without doing it, your back to the late 1800’s where seasons and bag limits didn’t exist. Not a good idea for the game or for the hunter. I'm not sure you know my situation. I haven't hunted Public land in over 15yrs because hunting an area for 3 days is not hunting to me. I have pushed the FWC and other agency in the past to have more hunting opportunities on "our lands" but like many have quite beating my head against that wall. Its easy to blame other agencies, but the FWC has lead them down this path of short hunts and quotas. Just look at the areas the FWC is lead agency. They are mostly quota hunts, unless they are very large and far from populated areas. Yes managing the user is part of good wildlife management, but you do that with seasons, bag limits, antler restrictions, doe harvest etc. I think you know very few if any is advocating for no user management. As you know most have supported these user management rules to make hunting better on both private and public lands. Now that we have sensible deer regs and bag limits with the check system it's time for the FWC to take a second look at a lot of are WMAs and do away with many quota areas or at least give more gun hunts on them. You and I have discussed your situation over a meal in the past. I get it and don’t disagree with you about the need for more diversity of hunt formats in each different region, so that opportunity to be in the field exists without people needing to drive 2-3 hours to get to an open public property to be able to hunt. |
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Post by richm on Jun 11, 2024 7:13:31 GMT -5
so that opportunity to be in the field exists without people needing to drive 2-3 hours to get to an open public property to be able to hunt. This is what happened to me. I hunted a place 2-2.5 hrs from home for 2 seasons, and was getting on deer and then did the math. 4-5 hrs a day driving to sit in a tree and not shoot anything. Tried camping nearby but had trucks revving thru the campground at night. Got on a GA lease and shot deer for the next 7-8 yrs until the guy's kids reached hunting age and were tearing that place up. I learned not to see deer and the kids still were in the stand the next morning before I got there. It was a good introduction to returning to FL public land. Nice side of things is folks don't threaten me anymore. Mak mentioned Pat - is this the same restrict hunting on Moccasin island Pat? That was the death of UWF. It seems pretty quiet except for some from Newton these days. Was UWF involved in the quota permit application changes for MINWR? If you don't know, might should look at the regs. Hoping it will help me and the 2 old guys get a tag or two. |
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Post by One Man Gang on Jun 11, 2024 9:53:34 GMT -5
Same Pat, Rich... that whole attitude of restriction killed our friendship. He couldn't get past the fact that we stopped the restrictions they were trying to force on Moccasin Island. The division tore the org apart.
The nutty thing about all of this is that deep down 99% of us are after the same carrot. The problem comes from the different paths we choose to get to it.
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Post by richm on Jun 11, 2024 12:43:58 GMT -5
Same Pat, Rich... that whole attitude of restriction killed our friendship. He couldn't get past the fact that we stopped the restrictions they were trying to force on Moccasin Island. The division tore the org apart. The nutty thing about all of this is that deep down 99% of us are after the same carrot. The problem comes from the different paths we choose to get to it. Sorry about that. It's a shame folks can't get past stuff like that. Agree about the carrot. Wish the hunting was a little better - do we blame the weed spraying? |
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