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Post by ferris1248 on Apr 20, 2024 7:48:37 GMT -5
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Post by garycoleco on Apr 20, 2024 8:21:23 GMT -5
It happens regularly and the maritime industry has known about it for over a decade. Fighter pilots get randomly ejected as well.
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Post by bswiv on Apr 20, 2024 8:49:46 GMT -5
I can't get past the pay wall on either so can not read them. Maybe copy and past?
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Post by One Man Gang on Apr 21, 2024 3:40:48 GMT -5
It is happening with more frequency the past several years. Where it was once an occasional occurance, we are now seeing ships with mechanical issues just about weekly.
FYI, when a ship or tug loses a engine or steering it has to be reported to the USCG, who the then slaps a no sail on the vessel until it can prove the issue has been repaired. If it keeps happening the USCG will look into the problem with more scrutiny. Many times the ABS will be asked to verify things have been properly repaired before the USCG releases the ship.
Seems to me, from my casual observations, that more ships than ever have been held up at anchor recently due to various failures.
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Post by GaryS on Apr 21, 2024 6:00:32 GMT -5
Years ago there was no computers on boats. As efficient as computers are they cause a lot of trouble too. How much more reliable is a diesel engine with a injector pump compared to a computer controlled diesel engine with numerous sensors?
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Post by olmucky on Apr 21, 2024 6:45:47 GMT -5
Could it be the shear volume of ships coming here now? Like has the % of times this happens that much greater or is it the volumes upon volumes of “stuff” we get here now from overseas
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Post by garycoleco on Apr 21, 2024 6:46:32 GMT -5
Could it be the shear volume of ships coming here now? Like has the % of times this happens that much greater or is it the volumes upon volumes of “stuff” we get here now from overseas They're very hackable
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Post by cadman on Apr 21, 2024 7:39:38 GMT -5
Years ago there was no computers on boats. As efficient as computers are they cause a lot of trouble too. How much more reliable is a diesel engine with a injector pump compared to a computer controlled diesel engine with numerous sensors? I think that is true about most products today. A lot of the human inspectors that ensured the item was manufactured correctly and to specs has been replaced by a computer. While it is more efficient, I think quality suffers.
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Post by swampdog on Apr 21, 2024 8:41:54 GMT -5
Not sure but companies may be pushing the envelope to make profits. A plane might crash and result in a greater loss of life and costs, so the maintenance might be considered more critical than a ship or semi truck that if power goes out it can float or pull off the road. The recent container ship that hit the bridge was probably in the wrong place when it lost power so it made the news. Possibly OMG can offer something me true insight.
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Post by One Man Gang on Apr 21, 2024 10:40:04 GMT -5
I think it's a combo of all factors. Companies shove their sms manuals down the throats of the work force but then often fail to provide proper support to effectively carry it out. It could be a manning issue. It could be money/profit. It could even be as simple as substantially lackadaisical and unmotivated personnel. A guy just showing up for a paycheck, overlooking a small detail can really cause a serious incident in today's automated world. Let's face it, I think we can all see the decline in a truly motivated US work force. If you really scrutinize labor in many sectors, you're likely going to find more unqualified (insufficiently trained) people than any other time in our lives. Just because a guy passed a test and a background check doesn't necessarily make them qualified. A cheap, warm body to fill the position isn't always the right solution.
A lot of it is from as Gary said. It literally only takes a glitch in a cheap sensor to render a multi million dollar engine or drive either useless or compromised on my own tug. Now, imagine the added complexities related to a ship compared to a tugboat! There is a very sound argument to be made for old school tech, but those days are gone. Computers and electronic controls have changed the landscape of machinery, emissions, and manning. Not all of this is bad of course, but all of it boils down to profit and IMAGE.
Another consideration in the case of a bridge allision is past practices. Just because tugboats were being released prior to a major bridge transit in the past, is it still a good idea in today's world? That will surely change now and in my opinion was long overdue. A tug escort is cheap insurance in the bigger scheme of shipping. Quite honestly it's not the place to cut corners in a multi billion $ business.
The days of "shit happening" are over. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility these days when things go wrong, and EVERYONE readily assigns blame and culpability. Most companies have manifested this in their own writings within their SMS programs. Basically, in most cases, if something screws up, they have a checklist to walk through that will lead to a damning finger point. Sometimes this leads to good policy reform, but it always comes at a cost to some poor bastard on the front line. IMPO
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Post by whitebacon on Apr 21, 2024 11:01:22 GMT -5
I think it's a combo of all factors. Companies shove their sms manuals down the throats of the work force but then often fail to provide proper support to effectively carry it out. It could be a manning issue. It could be money/profit. It could even be substantially lackadaisical and unmotivated personnel than any other time in our lives. Let's face it, I think we can all see the decline in a truly motivated the US work force. If you really scrutinize labor in many sectors, you're likely going to find more unqualified (insufficiently trained) people. Just because a guy passed a test and a background check doesn't necessarily make them truly qualified. A cheap, warm body to fill the position isn't always the right course of action. A lot of it is from as Gary said. It literally only takes a glitch in a cheap sensor to render a multi million dollar engine or drive either useless or compromised on my own tug. Now, imagine the added complexities related to a ship compared to a tugboat! There is a very sound argument to be made for old school tech, but those days are gone. Computers and electronic controls have changed the landscape of machinery, emissions, and manning. Not all of this is bad of course, but all of it boils down to profit and IMAGE. Another consideration in the case of a bridge allision is past practices. Just because tugboats were being released prior to a major bridge transit in the past, is it still a good idea? That will surely change now and in my opinion was long overdue. A tug escort is cheap insurance in the bigger scheme of shipping. Quite honestly it's not the place to cut corners in a multi billion $ business. The days of shit happening are over. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility these days when things go wrong, and EVERYONE readily assigns blame and culpability. Most companies have manifested this in their own writings within their SMS program. Basically, in most cases, if something screws up, they have a checklist to walk through that will lead to a finger point. Sometimes this leads to good policy reform, but it always comes at a cost to some poor bastard on the front line. IMPO Well said. Have I told you I missed you? Hope all is well. Stay safe Captain.
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Post by ferris1248 on Apr 21, 2024 12:56:35 GMT -5
I think it's a combo of all factors. Companies shove their sms manuals down the throats of the work force but then often fail to provide proper support to effectively carry it out. It could be a manning issue. It could be money/profit. It could even be as simple as substantially lackadaisical and unmotivated personnel. A guy just showing up for a paycheck, overlooking a small detail can really cause a serious incident in today's automated world. Let's face it, I think we can all see the decline in a truly motivated US work force. If you really scrutinize labor in many sectors, you're likely going to find more unqualified (insufficiently trained) people than any other time in our lives. Just because a guy passed a test and a background check doesn't necessarily make them qualified. A cheap, warm body to fill the position isn't always the right solution. A lot of it is from as Gary said. It literally only takes a glitch in a cheap sensor to render a multi million dollar engine or drive either useless or compromised on my own tug. Now, imagine the added complexities related to a ship compared to a tugboat! There is a very sound argument to be made for old school tech, but those days are gone. Computers and electronic controls have changed the landscape of machinery, emissions, and manning. Not all of this is bad of course, but all of it boils down to profit and IMAGE. Another consideration in the case of a bridge allision is past practices. Just because tugboats were being released prior to a major bridge transit in the past, is it still a good idea in today's world? That will surely change now and in my opinion was long overdue. A tug escort is cheap insurance in the bigger scheme of shipping. Quite honestly it's not the place to cut corners in a multi billion $ business.The days of "shit happening" are over. Nobody ever wants to take responsibility these days when things go wrong, and EVERYONE readily assigns blame and culpability. Most companies have manifested this in their own writings within their SMS programs. Basically, in most cases, if something screws up, they have a checklist to walk through that will lead to a damning finger point. Sometimes this leads to good policy reform, but it always comes at a cost to some poor bastard on the front line. IMPO
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