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Post by james14 on Oct 18, 2023 17:59:18 GMT -5
So, FWC now only allows Class 1 ebikes to be used on bike trails, closed roads, etc. FL law outlines what defines the different classifications, states that a sticker indicating the class must be on the bike, and that the bike cannot be modified UNLESS the sticker is changed to reflect the new class.
So, my question is this:
If an officer sees you riding out on an ebike, what authority do they have to check your bike? Let's assume they do not see you using a throttle on the bike and that you have a "Class 1" sticker on the bike. Let's assume the throttle is actually unplugged or otherwise made inoperable so that this cannot be assumed that I'm looking for a way to break the law. This is a legitimate question that has not been answered by FWC.
If they see the throttle, does that give them any authority, or probable cause, to check it themselves? Or to force you to prove that the throttle doesn't work? If the bike has a "Class 1" sticker and the officer never sees you using a throttle, can they compel you to give them any further info or check the bike beyond seeing the sticker?
Fl Classifications: (a) “Class 1 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that provides assistance only when the rider is pedaling and that ceases to provide assistance when the electric bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
(b) “Class 2 electric bicycle” means an electric bicycle equipped with a motor that may be used exclusively to propel the electric bicycle and that ceases to provide assistance when the electric bicycle reaches the speed of 20 miles per hour.
Classification Sticker Rules: (3) Beginning January 1, 2021, manufacturers and distributors of electric bicycles shall apply a label that is permanently affixed in a prominent location to each electric bicycle. The label must contain the classification number, top assisted speed, and motor wattage of the electric bicycle.
(4) A person may not tamper with or modify an electric bicycle so as to change the motor-powered speed capability or engagement of an electric bicycle, unless the label indicating the classification number required in subsection (3) is replaced after such modification.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Oct 18, 2023 18:47:19 GMT -5
You can get classification stickers from Amazon and according to the last paragraph you can modify the bike if you change the stickers. This is just my opinion, it will be interesting to see Bullfrog's response.
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Post by james14 on Oct 18, 2023 19:42:02 GMT -5
Yeah, I have a Class 1 sticker on my bike. If asked, I want to be respectful, but also not give any consent that I don't have to. I just can't see where I can be compelled to start pushing buttons, levers, or showing how and where wires are connected.
The same issue could arise with the difference between Class 1 and 3. If there's a Class 1 sticker, and no throttle at all, can the rider be compelled to demonstrate the bike won't go over 20mph? Can you picture the officer, "Yeah, I'm gonna need you to ride as fast as you can down this woods road while I hit you with the radar gun."
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Post by JS84 on Oct 18, 2023 20:16:28 GMT -5
I was having a conversation with my buddy about this exact subject. I will not obstruct an investigation, but I also will not assist in an investigation. If an officer is checking my shotgun for shell capacity limits, they should know how to determine if it's plugged or not. The same overall principle applies to my ebike.
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Post by cadman on Oct 19, 2023 8:48:46 GMT -5
If there is a throttle on the e-bike, I believe it is a class 2 bike. You would need to remove the throttle for it to be a class 1 bike. Disconnecting it does not make it a class one Ebike. That is my understanding of the law, but Bullfrog will be able to give a better answer. I think evidence of a throttle is probable cause to suspect the bike is a class 2 e-bike since the difference is the throttle.
I doubt a cop is going to ask you to prove the max speed if the sticker says class 1 and has no throttle, but if he catches you going 30 mph, he might have cause to suspect the bike is not a class 1 E-bike.
My theory is to assist as much as possible. If you want to be a pain about it, you could run into an asshole cop who decides to impound the Ebike for evidence if he believes it violates the law. I would prove it does not so I can go on about my day as quickly as possible.
What you or I may think a cop has a right to do may be different than what he thinks he has a right to do. Arguing those fine points on the side of the road will always result in a loss for you. You have to argue them in court. So refusing to do as the officer asks, whether you think it is a legal request or not, is never a good idea. Inform them you do not consent to any searches but do as they ask, record the event if possible, and let an attorney argue it in court if the cop violates your rights.
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Post by Crkr 23 on Oct 19, 2023 12:54:09 GMT -5
The problem is finding a fat tire class 1 bike. The only class 1 bikes that I found were high dollar European road bikes.
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Post by meateater on Oct 19, 2023 13:53:26 GMT -5
i have a class 5 ebike similar to a yamaha yz 125. just kidding but its a beast. if vehicles are allowed on trail or levee any ebike is allowed, its when you go on a trail or levee or off road where vehicles are not allowed where you may have a problem. my solution for now is to only use the bike early morning before its light out and a hour after sunset . i still see plenty of rambos and quiet cats so i will use mine until i stop seeing others using them or i get enough warnings. this is a top 10 stupid woke ass fwc rule anyway. any officer with at least one nut should not harass you over a electric bike, the one who stopped me last month was cool, just keep it on roads,levees,trails open to other vehicles, no off roading or mudding he said then we both laughed.
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Post by james14 on Oct 19, 2023 14:46:22 GMT -5
I definitely don't intend to be an ass about it. I know that won't end well. But I also don't want to go into demo mode when they should only have to look at the sticker unless they actually see the bike being used in a way that doesn't conform to that classification. I've only had my license checked once in my 25 years of actually holding a license and never had my bow or firearm checked. I assume the same will happen with my bike, but I just want to be prepared because it's new and might get extra scrutiny.
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Post by swampdog on Oct 19, 2023 15:10:29 GMT -5
Had an e-bike guy fussing about a guy in a jeep driving down the same closed road he rode his bike down. I pushed his button a little playfully as we’re close friends and he did say the road was closed to his bike as well. I don’t know if it was the class of his bike or not. His is fast and has a throttle. Anyone know why the FWC changed the rules on classification’s?
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Post by One Man Gang on Oct 19, 2023 15:16:25 GMT -5
Just more complex bullshit rule making.
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Post by meateater on Oct 20, 2023 10:02:10 GMT -5
Just more complex bullshit rule making. kinda like the no hunting license needed to hunt hogs on wmas during hog or small game seasons, nothing like being in the woods with people who have no experience at all, most dont speak english so you know they cant read the brochure and on some wmas walking around with ar,s or 30/06. im sure fwc polled all the legit hunters and asked them what they think about this rule. undocumented season they should name it.
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Glenn
Junior Member
Posts: 93
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Post by Glenn on Oct 20, 2023 17:25:57 GMT -5
Just walk and be happy!
I looked into the e-bike craze mainly for Turkey season. However, I started to think about some of the areas I hunt here in the pandhandle and how much easier it is to walk or come in by canoe.
Just too many rules in this state anymore.
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Post by bullfrog on Oct 20, 2023 23:19:10 GMT -5
Sorry just saw this. I’ve been consumed by a trial all week. I’m decompressing now. Let me get a good night’s sleep and I’ll do a writeup this weekend.
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Post by bullfrog on Oct 21, 2023 7:18:52 GMT -5
I know nothing about the regulations on e-bikes. I am taking your assertions about their requirements as a given fact.
So let’s make some more assumptions.
1. This is a WMA or other FWC-managed land.
2. You show indicia of hunting or fishing.
If 1 and 2 are true, then I think they can stop you and inspect the bike.
The case law gives the FWC broader authority than most LEOs so long as you appear to be hunting or fishing. If you don’t appear to be engaging in those activities, the rules follow pretty much the same as any other LEO for stops.
Now let’s assume 1 but not 2. You are biking in a WMA, but not hunting or fishing, can a FWC officer do an inspection of your bike to make sure it complies?
That’s going to be more tricky. The starting point is to know that if you were in a truck in the WMA and not on a bike, and the truck isn’t visually breaking any rules, an officer can’t stop you in the truck to check you for something just because you’re in the WMA. There’s a case on that from several years ago. And there’s a whole line of cases that define when a LEO can and cannot detain someone on a bike (pretty much the same rules as motor vehicles) out on the city streets.
So if I put the two lines of cases together, I’d say a LEO can’t stop and check your bike just because you’re in the WMA. Except…
I could foresee an argument prevailing that says the environmental impact of motorized bikes is such that specifically in those areas where they are regulated, the FWC may perform regulatory inspections on them.
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Post by bullfrog on Oct 21, 2023 7:26:08 GMT -5
I am pretty sure there’s a line of cases that talk about pulling over e-bikes on regular streets. Would probably be instructive. I’ll do some looking.
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