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Post by gardawg on Aug 17, 2024 8:10:04 GMT -5
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Post by whitebacon on Aug 17, 2024 8:30:52 GMT -5
We had the same issue dumping into Lake Michigan. They constructed the “Deep Tunnel Project” and dug huge storm water reservoirs and use several massive quarries as reservoirs also. The problem has been greatly reduced but once in a while we still have an overflow. Unfortunately Tampa will now face billions if not trillions of dollars in expense to create a storm water retention system that is sufficient. However, I don’t think anything could be done about overflow caused by hurricanes? What do you think the answer is David? IMO, it is not feasible to install "modern" stormwater systems, which includes collection and retention. The sheer costs of land acquisition alone would be in the billions, and God only knows the real costs of fighting the eminent domain lawsuits. Property values in downtown, Palma Ceia, Bayshore, Westshore, etc. are among the highest in Florida, relatively speaking. I agree, there is nothing that can ever be done about handling storms. I say sadly, nothing can be done now. It's just not feasible. I have numerous friends from those neighborhoods, my family on both sides are from those neighborhoods, and people just accept that occasionally it's going to flood. Despite the City being so old, most of the City, and those neighborhoods have gravity sewer. The City will have to replace the sanitary sewer and potable water systems that are aging badly. They are doing it now, on a piecemeal basis, but the cost to replace those entire systems alone is monstrous.
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Post by illinoisfisherman on Aug 17, 2024 8:35:21 GMT -5
They were condemning blocks of nice homes to dig retention areas. The deep tunnel project went on for 20 years. I believe there was federal funding involved.
Hopefully Tampa can get help and mediate the situation to lessen the impact on the bay.
🙏
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Post by illinoisfisherman on Aug 17, 2024 8:38:31 GMT -5
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Post by ferris1248 on Aug 17, 2024 8:39:58 GMT -5
There's not a major city in the US that isn't having water/sewer infrastructure issues. Those projects have been neglected for decades.
Additional monies are flowing right now but it's basically repair work, not major upgrading.
I've got money invested 3 or 4 water funds. They aren't very glamorous but they are steady gainers. More and more, municipalities are turning these plants over to private interests that are traded on the market.
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Post by whitebacon on Aug 17, 2024 8:46:23 GMT -5
They were condemning blocks of nice homes to dig retention areas. The deep tunnel project went on for 20 years. I believe there was federal funding involved. Hopefully Tampa can get help and mediate the situation to lessen the impact on the bay. 🙏 We will just call the area most prone to flooding, "South Tampa". Some of the most wealthy, well connected people in Florida live in that area. There is no way in hell they will ever tolerate "fixing" the problem correctly. They are well aware that stormwater drains to the bay. There are marked round permanent labels on every grate inlet or curb inlet stating that warning. And they accept that. But that's as far as they are willing to go.
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Post by illinoisfisherman on Aug 17, 2024 9:05:38 GMT -5
There's not a major city in the US that isn't having water/sewer infrastructure issues. Those projects have been neglected for decades. Additional monies are flowing right now but it's basically repair work, not major upgrading. I've got money invested 3 or 4 water funds. They aren't very glamorous but they are steady gainers. More and more, municipalities are turning these plants over to private interests that are traded on the market. Unfortunately private companies seem to always do a better job than government agencies
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Post by gardawg on Aug 17, 2024 9:47:00 GMT -5
of course composting toilets will never be considered ... makes too much sense
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Post by jmarkb on Aug 17, 2024 10:47:38 GMT -5
They dump about every storm or any other excuse they can think of... Sewage plants on east and west coasts. Even in the rivers. Fishing w TP on your line…. Bleh. The sewage wasn't "dumped". What happened was the the rainfall overflowed the gravity sanitary system in certain places. In other words, rainfall, heavy rainfall, collected in the streets, and found it's way into the sanitary sewer system, mostly via manhole covers. Pump stations (lift stations) can only process so many GPH, (gallons per hour), hence the excess sewage that was/is unable to be processed, i.e. pumped to the sewer treatment plants, will run into the storm water system and ultimately end up in Tampa Bay. The problem is exacerbated by the fact the the City of Tampa doesn't have stormwater retention ponds, like you would see in a newer subdivision of homes. Almost the entire City of Tampa was built out long before modern storm water sewer retention systems were required by law/rule. Trust me, that I'm an expert on the subject. Whatever idiot news source said that sanitary sewer was intentionally pumped into the bay is categorically full of shit. The fines from such an intentional act would be in the tens of millions, but it didn't happen intentionally. It wasn't "pumped" into the bay. And the 9 million gallons, is an educated guess. This same phenomenon happened all over Hillsborough and Pinellas, albeit in smaller quantities. This.^ And has happened for years and years. And will continue. There's not a way to "fix" it.
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Post by illinoisfisherman on Aug 17, 2024 12:54:04 GMT -5
Well I certainly am not on the least familiar with Tampa but although it may be extraordinarily expensive I believe the problem could be corrected so that it is not as harmful.
They tore down $750,000 houses to build a big retention area near my home. Probably ten of them and a bunch of smaller homes.
It took years of planning and construction but the problem has been minimized.
Are there any quarries in the area? That and the huge underground tunnels that they bored are used for the storage of rainwater.
I know some of you are indeed experts in the field but they will eventually have to do something. Do they have sewerage treatment plants like we do? They make that stuff into some fine fertilizer.
Anyway if the dummies up here can reverse the flow of the Chicago River and find a way to keep the rainwater stored I’m sure someone could come up with solutions for the problems in other areas
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Post by cyclist on Aug 17, 2024 15:29:35 GMT -5
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Post by illinoisfisherman on Aug 17, 2024 16:14:24 GMT -5
They don’t have to build a new plant. They have to seal the sanitary system and create a sanitary holding area. I believe the problem occurs when the storm water mixes into the sanitary system.
Unless they have a Chicago style combination sewer that should not be an impossible problem to fix
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Post by ferris1248 on Aug 17, 2024 16:14:25 GMT -5
Maybe people ought stop building in areas prone to flooding
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Post by jmarkb on Aug 17, 2024 17:23:09 GMT -5
Maybe people ought stop building in areas prone to flooding Ferris a whole bunch of the areas that flood were built years ago. They are right in the middle of the City. It's a little to late to stop building where stuff floods. A large part of Tampa would never get approval to be built on now. Or even 20 years ago.
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Post by illinoisfisherman on Aug 17, 2024 17:38:11 GMT -5
Maybe people ought stop building in areas prone to flooding It’s difficult to build in a flood zone or a flood way any more
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