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Post by bullfrog on Jul 15, 2024 12:13:33 GMT -5
I don’t fault him for making a mistake. We all do. I do fault him for being snarky, trying to play a gotcha game with me, and then trying to hide it when he realized he was wrong. I read his post first thing this morning. I just didn’t have time to respond until right now. Cad said it was unknown whether the Thomas Crooks contributed to the Leftist group was the same, suggested that he probably was not the same because Thomas Crooks had been contributing to this group for years, and that I hadn’t done my homework and shame on me for not verifying it. But of course, it was verified that the shooter’s address was the same as the contributor’s address, and the other Thomas Crooks who’s contributed to the group over the years was a different person out of California. What I said was, there was no address on the actual form, it only said the city and state. When I looked at it later, I noticed the form did list the street address and noticed I had made an error. I deleted my post due to my mistake. I never mentioned the other Thomas Crook from California. I said, since it didn't list the address, we don't if it was the kid or not. My only "snarkiness" was using the same comment you made to BT which was "Now isn’t that awkward?" You were going on in your comment about me not checking my sources. You were trying to play a gotcha game with me, and that's the only reason I didn't let it slide. I don't care whether you were wrong or not. You did talk about how a Thomas Crooks had been making donations for some time to the same group and it was unusual (and thus unlikely) for a 17 year old to have made the donation. You were implying that I hadn't done my due diligence and it should have been obvious had I checked that there's been a Thomas Crooks making donations to this group for many years, and common sense would say that Thomas Crooks wasn't the young shooter. But... simply clicking the links you provided would have shown you that the Thomas Crooks who had made donations to this groups over many years was out of California, while the specific donation in question came from PA. Two different Thomas Crooks in different parts of the country who've donated to the same group over the years. So you didn't do you diligence my checking those links. You acknowledge that the shooter's address on the form is all over the internet. It's easy to verify. So there was no reason for you to attempt to call me out on it. Again, I don't care that you were wrong. So what? We are all from time to time. But you go out of your way to try to say "gotcha" to me. And if you're going to do that, you got to own it when you get got instead.
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Post by bullfrog on Jul 15, 2024 12:18:25 GMT -5
As I said in another thread, this (Crooks) was fed so much garbage and hate for almost half his life it’s no wonder he did what he did. He should have been easily stopped. The failure is our government and its bloated, corrupt bureaucracy’s. Not to mention their are a large number of people in government who were hoping for an incident like this to happen. I agree, he was clearly radicalized. He was on a mission to kill Trump at a Trump rally. Of course he would dress in a way to blend in. Stereotypically so. Otherwise, you're left trying to justify why a pro-gun assassin who wants to wear his gun-obsession literally on his sleeve is hard-up to kill one of the most pro-gun candidates in recent American history. You'd have to believe that Trump represented an anti-gun stance to the boy, which undercuts your side's narrative about Trump being a crazy gun advocate.
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Post by cyclist on Jul 15, 2024 12:19:03 GMT -5
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Post by cadman on Jul 15, 2024 12:24:51 GMT -5
One report says ladder, another says a fellow officer hoisted him up. Whichever it was, it was not tall enough to get to the roof hence the guy used his hands to pull himself up to the roof, according to the news reports. Not sure why an officer would risk falling to the ground if he could use a ladder to simply duck. But I was not there, just going by news reports. The bad guy conveniently had a ladder on the building. You're getting bad info Sorry, thought you referring to the cop using a ladder. There are several things about this incident that we still need more information on. One is where did the ladder come from the shooter used to get to the roof. Another is, once the possibility of a threat was known, why wasn't Trump taken off stage. From news reports, there is some kind of issue between the local police and secret service with each blaming the other. It will be weeks before we know where the breakdown in communication occurred. from what little i have read, it seems the secret service relied on local PD to secure the outer perimeter. That was a mistake, but maybe it had worked in the past.
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Post by meateater on Jul 15, 2024 12:26:57 GMT -5
What I said was, there was no address on the actual form, it only said the city and state. When I looked at it later, I noticed the form did list the street address and noticed I had made an error. I deleted my post due to my mistake. I never mentioned the other Thomas Crook from California. I said, since it didn't list the address, we don't if it was the kid or not. My only "snarkiness" was using the same comment you made to BT which was "Now isn’t that awkward?" You were going on in your comment about me not checking my sources. You were trying to play a gotcha game with me, and that's the only reason I didn't let it slide. I don't care whether you were wrong or not. You did talk about how a Thomas Crooks had been making donations for some time to the same group and it was unusual (and thus unlikely) for a 17 year old to have made the donation. You were implying that I hadn't done my due diligence and it should have been obvious had I checked that there's been a Thomas Crooks making donations to this group for many years, and common sense would say that Thomas Crooks wasn't the young shooter. But... simply clicking the links you provided would have shown you that the Thomas Crooks who had made donations to this groups over many years was out of California, while the specific donation in question came from PA. Two different Thomas Crooks in different parts of the country who've donated to the same group over the years. So you didn't do you diligence my checking those links. You acknowledge that the shooter's address on the form is all over the internet. It's easy to verify. So there was no reason for you to attempt to call me out on it. Again, I don't care that you were wrong. So what? We are all from time to time. But you go out of your way to try to say "gotcha" to me. And if you're going to do that, you got to own it when you get got instead. ahh ha ha ha, cad you big dummy.
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Post by cadman on Jul 15, 2024 12:28:28 GMT -5
What I said was, there was no address on the actual form, it only said the city and state. When I looked at it later, I noticed the form did list the street address and noticed I had made an error. I deleted my post due to my mistake. I never mentioned the other Thomas Crook from California. I said, since it didn't list the address, we don't if it was the kid or not. My only "snarkiness" was using the same comment you made to BT which was "Now isn’t that awkward?" You were going on in your comment about me not checking my sources. You were trying to play a gotcha game with me, and that's the only reason I didn't let it slide. I don't care whether you were wrong or not. You did talk about how a Thomas Crooks had been making donations for some time to the same group and it was unusual (and thus unlikely) for a 17 year old to have made the donation. You were implying that I hadn't done my due diligence and it should have been obvious had I checked that there's been a Thomas Crooks making donations to this group for many years, and common sense would say that Thomas Crooks wasn't the young shooter. But... simply clicking the links you provided would have shown you that the Thomas Crooks who had made donations to this groups over many years was out of California, while the specific donation in question came from PA. Two different Thomas Crooks in different parts of the country who've donated to the same group over the years. So you didn't do you diligence my checking those links. You acknowledge that the shooter's address on the form is all over the internet. It's easy to verify. So there was no reason for you to attempt to call me out on it. Again, I don't care that you were wrong. So what? We are all from time to time. But you go out of your way to try to say "gotcha" to me. And if you're going to do that, you got to own it when you get got instead. Feel better now?
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Post by One Man Gang on Jul 15, 2024 12:31:31 GMT -5
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Post by osprey11 on Jul 15, 2024 12:40:04 GMT -5
LOL Busted!
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Post by cadman on Jul 15, 2024 12:41:22 GMT -5
One report says ladder, another says a fellow officer hoisted him up. Whichever it was, it was not tall enough to get to the roof hence the guy used his hands to pull himself up to the roof, according to the news reports. Not sure why an officer would risk falling to the ground if he could use a ladder to simply duck. But I was not there, just going by news reports. The bad guy conveniently had a ladder on the building. You're getting bad info Here is an example of the issue between the Secret Service and local PD. Each seems to claim the other was responsible for securing the building the shooter got on. The Secret Service had designated that rooftop as being under the jurisdiction of local law enforcement, a common practice in securing outdoor rallies, Guglielmi said.
Butler County District Attorney Richard Goldinger said his office maintains an Emergency Services Unit team, which deployed four sniper teams and four “quick response teams” at the rally. But he said the Secret Service agents were in charge of security outside the venue.
www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-rally-shooting-secret-service-identified-rooftop-security-flaw-rcna161783
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Post by garycoleco on Jul 15, 2024 12:43:40 GMT -5
The bad guy conveniently had a ladder on the building. You're getting bad info Sorry, thought you referring to the cop using a ladder. There are several things about this incident that we still need more information on. One is where did the ladder come from the shooter used to get to the roof. Another is, once the possibility of a threat was known, why wasn't Trump taken off stage. From news reports, there is some kind of issue between the local police and secret service with each blaming the other. It will be weeks before we know where the breakdown in communication occurred. from what little i have read, it seems the secret service relied on local PD to secure the outer perimeter. That was a mistake, but maybe it had worked in the past. The cop confrontation is not true. That's a hero story The secret service were short handed as I stated earlier. Homeland Security screwed Trump Saturday and have screwed him since January as i stated earlier. They relied on local police because of the extra special VIPs that were also conveniently in Pennsylvania, as I eluded to earlier as well.
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Post by biminitwisted on Jul 15, 2024 12:52:44 GMT -5
I agree, he was clearly radicalized. He was on a mission to kill Trump at a Trump rally. Of course he would dress in a way to blend in. Stereotypically so. Otherwise, you're left trying to justify why a pro-gun assassin who wants to wear his gun-obsession literally on his sleeve is hard-up to kill one of the most pro-gun candidates in recent American history. You'd have to believe that Trump represented an anti-gun stance to the boy, which undercuts your side's narrative about Trump being a crazy gun advocate. No one ever claimed that the right-wing, Republican, gun nut, that shot Trump was right in the head.
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Post by meateater on Jul 15, 2024 12:53:37 GMT -5
bullshit, it could be a mile away the secret service is responsible, we used locals many times when securing a area but never ever counted on them. 100% a building that close as well as that water tower should have been protected top and bottom. huge failure of the secret service and thank god someone who really had skills was not the shooter as it appears that building wasnt the only unsecured shooting position. president biden should fire people in charge , be a good look for him because if trump does get elected theres gonna be a bunch of openings for secret service.
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Post by cadman on Jul 15, 2024 12:54:53 GMT -5
Sorry, thought you referring to the cop using a ladder. There are several things about this incident that we still need more information on. One is where did the ladder come from the shooter used to get to the roof. Another is, once the possibility of a threat was known, why wasn't Trump taken off stage. From news reports, there is some kind of issue between the local police and secret service with each blaming the other. It will be weeks before we know where the breakdown in communication occurred. from what little i have read, it seems the secret service relied on local PD to secure the outer perimeter. That was a mistake, but maybe it had worked in the past. The cop confrontation is not true. That's a hero story The secret service were short handed as I stated earlier. Homeland Security screwed Trump Saturday and have screwed him since January as i stated earlier. They relied on local police because of the extra special VIPs that were also conveniently in Pennsylvania, as I eluded to earlier as well. Secret service says that is not true, they had increased security since Trump became a candidate and Homeland Security did not refuse any requests for additional security. U.S. Secret Service spokesperson Anthony Guglielmi posted on X, "Theres an untrue assertion that a member of the former President’s team requested additional security resources & that those were rebuffed. This is absolutely false. In fact, we added protective resources & technology & capabilities as part of the increased campaign travel tempo."
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Post by biminitwisted on Jul 15, 2024 12:54:55 GMT -5
Some here tell you that is perfectly normal right-wing talk, that in no way incites violence, as the entire right wing Trumpist movement is 100% without fault.
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Post by nuevowavo on Jul 15, 2024 12:59:12 GMT -5
From what I've read, the Secret Service is responsible for protection within the perimeter and local police for areas outside, and the building was outside.
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