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Post by illinoisfisherman on Apr 3, 2024 7:53:24 GMT -5
Problem is people can’t exist on $20 an hour. Most minimum wage workers must also receive some sort of public assistance. The taxpayer always has to help carry the burden.
Don’t have the answer. Wish there was one.
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Post by whitebacon on Apr 3, 2024 7:57:13 GMT -5
A minimum wage is needed. the first was instituted after the Depression to stabilize the economy and stop some from exploiting the poor. The question is not whether a minimum wage is needed, but what is the proper minimum wage. Without a minimum wage there will always be some unscrupulous employers taking advantage of certain classes of workers. It has happened in the past and would happen again without laws to stop them. I guess those against the minimum wage are also in favor of eliminating the 40-hour work week and child labor laws. Let's go back to working 50 to 60-hour weeks and let 12-year-olds work in factories. A minimum wage will increase costs, but it is not a $1 for $1 exchange. If you raise the minimum wage $1, the cost of goods does not go up $1. So there will be some economic gain to the employee at the lower end. In my opinion, It hurts the higher earners, just above minimum wage, and also affects productivity. Using California, the new minimum wage went from $15 to $20 an hour. Likely employees were making $16 before and even $17 an hour. They are now likely at the same $20 as the other minimum wage workers and their hard work has no benefit. It is like they are starting over. Managers are not going to get the same 25% increase in pay the minimum wage workers in California got. These employees get punished through no fault of their own. I think there needs to be a national minimum wage. I am not as convinced we should have state and local minimum wages, but it is easier for groups to convince these local governments to raise wages than it is Congress. The national minimum wage should be around $15 an hour and tied to inflation so it goes up the same as inflation each year. Congress should eliminate local and state minimum wages if such a mandate can pass a constitutional test. Economics, or price theory, does not require government intervention. Someone will pay x when the seller demands y. Or not. I'm not happy when the entire beach I grew up on now costs $20 million for the garbage lot. But government should stay out of it. Period.
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Post by dragonbait on Apr 3, 2024 8:32:10 GMT -5
t seems to me to be equally plain that no business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country. By "business" I mean the whole of commerce as well as the whole of industry; by workers I mean all workers, the white collar class as well as the men in overalls; and by living wages I mean more than a bare subsistence level-I mean the wages of decent living. Franklin D. Roosevelt
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Post by gandy on Apr 3, 2024 8:32:51 GMT -5
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Post by cadman on Apr 3, 2024 8:38:08 GMT -5
The problem is not honest employers, but dishonest ones. The government has to be involved to protect the guy who needs a job but has limited skills or those dishonest employers will take advantage to enrich themselves. There needs to be a definition of a minimum wage, a standard work week, and minimum safety regulations.
That beach would cost $20 million even if there was no minimum wage. That price was set by those who can pay that much not those making $15 an hour. It is called exclusionary pricing. Make it expensive enough to eliminate those who are not like me. You can see that everywhere you go. Drive down a road that used to be farmland, one 40-acre section will have lots costing $50,000 and 5 miles down the road, the same land will have lots costing $500,000 and a fancy gate in front. The only difference is, that the guy living on the $500,000 lot doesn't want to live with the people on the $50,000 lot. He wants to be separated by the fancy gate and is willing to pay to separate. The more exclusive the more he pays and the more people excluded.
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Post by bullfrog on Apr 3, 2024 9:05:20 GMT -5
A minimum wage is needed. the first was instituted after the Depression to stabilize the economy and stop some from exploiting the poor. The question is not whether a minimum wage is needed, but what is the proper minimum wage. Without a minimum wage there will always be some unscrupulous employers taking advantage of certain classes of workers. It has happened in the past and would happen again without laws to stop them. Enter millions of illegal aliens and the economic “need” to have them here. There are many jobs, mostly manual farm labor, that require workers to be paid significantly less than minimum wage in order for the ventures to be economically feasible. We originally used slaved for those jobs, then later poor American citizens filled that role. It was practical for poor Americans to make a living simply picking produce or otherwise being farm hands because the cost of living was low and Americans had a higher work ethic. The fact that we require millions of humans to fill the role of cheaply paid labor and therefore encourage millions of illegal immigrants to come fill the needed jobs that minimum wage makes impossible for American citizens to hold shows the inherent farce in the concept of minimum wage.
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Post by olmucky on Apr 3, 2024 9:11:34 GMT -5
The cost of living will go up accordingly and no economic advancement will be achieved for low earners. While the middle class will have more of their buying power eroded, making the distinction between low and middle class that much less by bringing the latter down. Good job! Are you saying the rich will just continue to get richer ?
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Post by bullfrog on Apr 3, 2024 9:18:23 GMT -5
Problem is people can’t exist on $20 an hour. Most minimum wage workers must also receive some sort of public assistance. The taxpayer always has to help carry the burden. Don’t have the answer. Wish there was one. I did for many years without any public assistance. My starting salary was $39,500 a hair over 15 years ago. If you counted the hours I put it, it was a lot less than the $19 an hour I was theoretically making. That was with 7 years of school and a law license. People that think they should live it big flipping burgers really need to get over themselves.
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Post by whitebacon on Apr 3, 2024 9:39:54 GMT -5
Problem is people can’t exist on $20 an hour. Most minimum wage workers must also receive some sort of public assistance. The taxpayer always has to help carry the burden. Don’t have the answer. Wish there was one. I did for many years without any public assistance. My starting salary was $39,500 a hair over 15 years ago. If you counted the hours I put it, it was a lot less than the $19 an hour I was theoretically making. That was with 7 years of school and a law license. People that think they should live it big flipping burgers really need to get over themselves. My good friend, I had a girlfriend, who went to law school and got a job. She had like 80k in debt when I met her. Smartest girl on the planet. Lot of backstory I won't repeat. Corporate in house counsel today with a familiar company
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Post by misterjr on Apr 3, 2024 10:46:31 GMT -5
Unregulated capitalism won't work. Buzz words of the neo-Marxists. With unregulated capitalism, you get Trump University.
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Post by meateater on Apr 3, 2024 10:49:10 GMT -5
so the girl who started at 13.00 a hour at say home depot ten years ago who now makes 21.00 with her experience and tenure will now make 1 dollar more a hour then the inexperienced knows nothing new employee, seems fair.
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Post by PolarsStepdad on Apr 3, 2024 10:52:36 GMT -5
Wage pressure never comes from the top....
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Post by misterjr on Apr 3, 2024 11:09:13 GMT -5
Remember all the people that lost their homes because of predatory lending (unregulated capitalism)?
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Post by gandy on Apr 3, 2024 11:13:05 GMT -5
Remember all the people that lost their homes because of predatory lending (unregulated capitalism)? Yes. Built by Clinton and crew, that burst after they were out of office.
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Post by cyclist on Apr 3, 2024 11:20:19 GMT -5
Remember all the people that lost their homes because of predatory lending (unregulated capitalism)? Yes. Built by Clinton and crew, that burst after they were out of office. not, but thanks for playing!
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